Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Site Polls' started by rhett, Oct 21, 2012.
Yeah I went with The Final Chapter too.
He's Killing Me!!!! He's Killing Me!!!!
I used to feel that way but, the years have soured me on it. The music and acting are great. CCH Pounder always upmarkets a movie, Perkins is of course wonderful, and Olivia Hussey gets to join the Hag Horror ranks. (A remarkable switch from the youthful, swanlike heroin she played in Black Christmas- in fact, is she maybe the only actress who's ever played both extremes?). But... there has never been (to my knowledge) a great film which looked back on how a child who became a killer became screwed up. At least 50% of the flashbacks register as padding.
Garris does have style, though. I think a lot of people under-recognize that about him. But, I give the edge in his filmography to Sleepwalkers (which is a legitimately good movie), his redo of The Shining (though some of it is boring), and Critters 2 (though some of it is lame).
At least you see my point (by naming the dog). Making characters shout things throughout your film like "God, I'm horny," "I'm am going to kill him," and "screw you" - with harsh anxiety - over not getting laid does not Quality Character Development make. The film, to my knowledge, is not intended to be a Battle of the Sexes narrative. And, even if it were, it goes nowhere. As it stands, the characters are aggressively unlikable. To the point where, in typical Bad Slasher Movie fashion- you just want to see them die. Jim kills himself when he says "besides, you've got the hot one of the two." Of course, the film in its' infinite wisdom decides to have the "hot one" he's talking about overhear him instead of actually confront him on the asshole thing he said and have the other girl walk by.
Tommy Jarvis likable? Just because he makes masks? As usual, I'm calling bullshit. This film only allows Trish to be likable- she's the ONLY one who doesn't get considerably caught up in the soul-crushing sleaze. The only thing I can say in Tommy's defense as a matter of fact, is that he had his debasements placed in the film's slightly less nasty uphill climb. When the teens' party starts, the film becomes an entirely oppressive experience (where before it was extremely unpleasent, cowardly, and tasteless). As though the film were saying kids cannot handle their sexual awareness or that being in groups makes them anti-social. This is a seriously fucked up movie. But of course, I place the blame on the filmmakers. Neither of which - Joe Zito and Barney Cohen - did any / much better on The Prowler (any) or Killer Party (much). This movie also forces me to do something I'm loathed to: say Paramount had a good reason to be embarrassed by this franchise- in this case they did.
And, because of nostalgia (I remain contractually bound to say) a part of me still loves the film. Or the part of me which for so long remained ignorant about the film's overwhelming sleaze. (Which CAN be smart, when done right: From Beyond, Bride of Chucky again, Basket Case and Brain Damage, and I'd like to say Class of Nuke 'Em High, since the tone of the film didn't seem like it was punishing anyone for enjoying their sexuality - another reason to dislike Night of the Demons, btw, people who wagged their finger at me for that one - it just... poked them a little.) But it deserves credit for only its' technical qualities. However, that's not enough to argue the film is best in the franchise. Not when, by comparison, part 2 is a lot smarter or Jason Takes Manhattan is a lot more even, or Jason Lives a lot scarier. True to the filmmakers' personal kinks, I am stating here and now that Jason's groaning during the ultra-sexual death scenes was not suggesting his character was more wild and animal-like than the previous films. It was subtextually suggesting that he was getting off on killing. This may sound fanboyish but... Jason doesn't think about sex, ever (the filmmakers do). So, turning him into a sexual-frustration killer is the final nail in this film's coffin. (By the way, Cohen admits it on the DVD special features.)
Nightmare on Elm Street 4, on the other hand, would be a near-masterpiece were it not for the poor acting. It hurts me more than I can say (as a hardcore lover of style-for-substance horror: Dust Devil, Hardware, The Hunger, Brain Damage, Jason Takes Manhattan, Cat People, The Company of Wolves, arguably Def by Temptation, and half of Cemetery Man- the half that was good ). But the film really does have a lot of great stuff going on. Its' one of those No Dialogue Needed stories. All Freddy has to do is show up in that classroom after we see Alice start to doze off and catch herself-thinking she's awake, peeling that apple, then do that walk, claw in face, and lick to Shiela... and right there, you have a classic horror scene for the ages (there's nothing else like it, not that I've ever seen). Even the ridiculous, Beetlejuician death doesn't hurt what we saw leading up to it. We don't even need to know Freddy was ever a child molestor, this says everything. It's a classic American nightmare- Freddy can go anywhere. Be anywhere. You're not safe anywhere! I almost have to give this scene a leg-up from Craven's original because we aren't really given any music or lighting signal that he's coming. He was just sitting in that seat since Alice/Shiela fell asleep.
The film also plays brilliantly with teen movie character conventions. It only needs to fix that damn Family Disharmony subplot. Which it just might have had it cast better actors. In fact, bad acting doesn't even hurt the scene right after the jeep accident. Any other horror film would cut directly to Alice at home, preparing to fight Freddy. This film makes an entire scene out of how Alice's character has developed thus far, sans guilt (over hurting Dan, which we didn't need to see anyway), and enhances it with style. I'll bet most people don't even remember it. I mean, Harlin even thought to throw in shots of Alice looking back at her father after stealing his car. It was a good shot too. Lisa Wilcox isn't that bad when she's not talking. In fact, one of the scariest things in the movie is the "Come on, honey, I don't wanna be here forever" moment. She was scarier there than Freddy was all-film.
They all suck, Rhett. But The Final Sacrifice sucks less than most of them. As a matter of fact... and if you've read any of my reviews here, you know I'm as harshly critical of family disharmony plots/subplots as anyone could be... and in general, the film does a slightly better job at the kid vs. the father relationship than most horror films. I rewatched their confrontation scenes at least 5-15 times back in April after getting the DVD sequel set. Which is only a measure of how closely I usually examine the films I watch. But, the film is better than it gets credit for. And WITHOUT a doubt, kicks the shit out of that awful Urban Harvest.
The third film is an intolerable mess with Daniel Cerny ruining every single scene. Every single scene he's in is the reason the film is... frankly, just as bad as part 6. Usually, film quality is a matter of opinion but- if you thought that kid did a good job beyond his facial expressions, you slept through it. Hilariously enough, though, the film doesn't improve much when he's not onscreen. Part 6 has better acting. In fact, part 6 has only one thing that makes it worse: the ending. And the painful melodrama. The third film is excrutiatingly bad. Do you / people like you (the only way to even hope to have a leg to stand on in defending Urban Harvest is to say "turn your brain off"; I believe there's a large Turn Your Brain Off subculture in film appreciation) have any actual scale for how bad the things we see in this film can get? And I have a list: the basketball scenes, the classroom seating confrontation, the pizza dinner scene, the off-to-school kiss, the broken glass ornament, the idea that any kid in the entire world (no matter how screwed up) could be so stupid that they'd be swayed by the unbelievably braindead and uncharismatic preaching of Eli, another incredibly empty-headed portrayal of domestic abuse (I was, as you'd expect, more terrified for the corn stalks than what that guy might have ever done to the boys), the social worker's death scene...
In fact, name one thing the 3rd film did better. Except perhaps for cinematography / camerawork.
As for The Gathering, less than a 3rd of the film actually works. By taking itself seriously and trying to treat the characters with respect, it then forgot what Franchise Rules were about to do to all its' hard work. The absurd, over the top schlockiness of all of the "horror" elements (and Karen Black's performance) pissed away all the film's potential. And, in fact, the film is worse for trying because it almost insults you for giving it credit. With its' mind-numbingly stupid death scenes, awful special effects, and uneven performances which shift into 9th-Circle-of-Hell badness when Lead Corn Kid #4 is given the ability to speak. Which depressingly reminds us how good John Franklin's performance was by comparison. After the scene where Grace's best friend says something like "we've got a problem" (during the tooth-folder sequence) the film turns into almost complete, rotting, smelly garbage and never looks back. Which is a lot more pure suckage time compared to the final 9-minute sequence from Final Sacrifice (which admittedly is where that film turns into rotting, smelly garbage).
Friday the 13th - The Final Chapter, marginally beating Halloween 4: The Return of Micale Myers. Both offer memorable slasher thrills, but The Final Chapter is simply the epitome of a Friday the 13th movie - boobs, cheese, jump scares, things going through windows, and an awesome final chase.
easy pick here Friday the 13th The Final Chapter which is the best out of the entire crop and best F13TH FILM as well!
Voted Phantasm IV: Oblivion, 2nd would be Child's Play 4.
Surprised there has been (a little) love for OblIVion...I'm all for Phantasm and really even like III, but this one seemed pretty morose and just kind of a stringing together of whatever Coscarelli could get his hands on in order to make it feature length.
completly agree i didnt care for OBlivion at all and i love the first 3 phantasm films no wonder the desperation for a Phantasm V
Wow, Frankenstein really got shafted in this poll with both the Universal and Hammer series being struck from the ballot. And replaced by two terrible films in Dracula series which can't hold a candle to their Frankenstein counterparts.
I mean, neither of those Frankenstein movies are prize pigs themselves, but both Dracula series took a huge nose dive after the second entries. While both of the Frankenstein series had a much more gradual decline.
Friday The 13th-The Final Chapter is my favorite in the series and pretty much the one I always come back to. I love the characters, very colorful, compared to the generic horror film characters that populated the earlier films. Great gore, well paced, Corey Feldman, Lawrence Monoson and Crispin Glover had amazing chemistry too. I would argue with the exception of Amy Steele, the most memorable characters are all in The Final Chapter.
Runner-ups are Halloween 4 and Dracula Has Risen From The Grave.
The rot definitely starts to sink in by the fourth chapter for most franchises.
Friday the 13th The Final Chapter. For me it's easily the best slasher, and one that's easily and often revisited.
Fine fine fiiiiiiine, out goes Dracula Has Risen from the Grave and in is Frankenstein Created Woman. If it doesn't get your vote there'll be hell to pay!
I liked Trish, Tommy, Mrs. Jarvis, Sara, Doug, Samantha, Jimbo and Tina. I didn't care for Teddy but I wouldn't say the film has shit characters.
Sara was especially sweet and just looking for love.
Ernest Scared Stupid.
The Final Chapter gets runner-up.
Bride of Chucky for me - my favorite movie of that series, and my favorite movie on the list.
/Anal Intruder 4 doesn't hold a candle to Backdoor Bandits 11.
Fist bump. Respect.
Not really any reasons there. :eek2:
Yep gets my vote as well
You are the internet's biggest contrarian, I can understand why there are no reasons because it's a losing battle trying to negotiate with you. At the end of the day we're talking about opinions, and ultimately they mean jack shit. Is it really worth debating whether you think a character is likable when another person thinks opposite. Does it really matter? I mean, characters don't even HAVE to be likable, there have been many a good film, like say The Rules of Attraction or The Blair Witch Project, where all the characters are douche bags and yet the movie works even more because of it.
Whether the characters are likable or not, the characters in THE FINAL CHAPTER are at least memorable. Trish, Tommy, Jimbo, Teddy, the Twins, Rob, Sara, Gordon (I'd consider it more a compliment to the film that the dog is actually remembered by name, and hell, the dude jumps through a window to save his life, that's spirit if I ever saw it), they're all characters that stand out and that you can remember. I've seen Part 2 more times than any of the films and consider it the best in the series, and even still I can't remember any of their names. Ginny, is it? And then there's Annie. I dunno. The point is, defining any movie, especially a FRIDAY THE 13TH movie, by the likability of its characters is just silly to begin with - since films are so much more than that. Why are you putting these arbitrary pillars of judgment on movies like that?
I started enjoying movies a lot more when I stopped trying to judge them for this and that - nothing's perfect and with everything you'll take out things that resonate with you. Enjoy it, learn a little about yourself or the movies, and be happy knowing there's a lifetime supply of movies out there to watch.
Friday the 13th - The Final Chapter
I don't need reasons to like people. That's stupid.
"Hey, do you have any friends in Psych class?"
"Yeah, a few. I like Phil, Barb and Jessica."
"Well, I just do. They're just likable to me."
"That's not really a reason. I question your validity in liking them."
How's this? Tommy and Trish's brother and sister authentic relationship makes their bond shine through the strongest of the bunch in the movie. Mrs. Jarvis now divorced and having to take care of two independent kids in the woods alone leaves room for her love of them to grow. She's notably out for their best interest and loves hugs. Hugs!
Doug is the nice guy who knows to look out for his friend Paul when Sara is about to get in the middle of a battle between Tina and Samantha. As shy as she is, he overcomes this and allows her time to warm up. Sara herself is an achievement being the friend of Sam, a sort-of idol for her to look up to. She's not as pretty so her confidence is shot, but she's good-hearted. "I think I'm in love." Naive yet innocent.
Jimbo has a similar relationship with Ted that Sara does with Sam, except that instead of the best friend being helpful and aiding their path, Ted is a phony would-be con man had he not been sliced in the back of the head by Jason. Jimbo cannot understand women the way Sara cannot understand men. We know from Sam's flow with Sara what her reaction would have been to Sara's accomplishment. A probable "See? What'd I tell ya? That's all there is to it." encouraging and solidifying their bond. What does Teddy do? "Alright! *snort snort*" But he never actually believed in Jimbo. As he sees that Jimmy has surpassed him and gained the upper hand, his face is written with defeat and he has nowhere to turn to but the old silent women on the screen in front of him. He's the dead fuck. Which is why, in contrast with Sara and Sam, he will pull Jim down to his level to make himself feel better.
When Sara is just lying down on the dock, she's staying inside her shell. She's not going into the water, or "the ocean with all the fishies" to mingle. She's fine being dry in her clothes, and afraid to put herself out there, or her body for this instance. Sam being the friend she is, pulls her into the water, not to be a bitch, but to liven her up. This is how she can get Doug. If she goes for it and isn't afraid to get soaked in the process. "You bitch!" Sara retaliates, but Sam's mindset is not to piss off, but to help.
Tina is the sluttier of the twins. From Paul to Jimbo. Well, she DID win the beer contest after all. But she doesn't treat men like a bitch would. She's fully invested, compliments Jim and isn't a stickler like Terri. She's not as fleshed out like the others, but she's just looking for some fun. Summer time is meant to be bold.
The characters alone are themselves. When mixed with others, that's where the dimensions come through.